Level Up, not lay off: How ServiceNow’s Sarah Tilley revamps recruiting in a down market

Team Compa
Team Compa

Take a look back at Compa’s latest webinar “Level up, not layoff,” and hear what Sarah Tilley of ServiceNow is opting for over the dreaded layoffs. Read the main highlights below or revisit the full transcript (below) and video recording.

In this session, we share how:

  • Talent pools are emerging after layoffs and hiring freezes;
  • Hybrid workplaces have impacted the labor market;
  • Companies need to adjust how they attract, assess, and hire top talent; 
  • To leverage new tools and technology, especially real-time market data;
  • Workplace equity is a new benchmark for talent acquisition teams; and  
  • Success requires new ways to turn market seasonality into actionable insights to win top candidates.

On market volatility

While there’s still a temporary influx of available talent across the market, Tilley notes, by contrast, there’s still a global shortage of experienced talent — especially in tech. This talent gap could cost companies worldwide an estimated $6.5 trillion by 2025, which means talent leaders will need to better accommodate these labor pools and overhaul their talent assessment practices. At the same time, companies will need to focus more on workplace equity to make sure they’re consistent with talent acquisition and compensation practices for both new and existing employees.

On the shift from quantity to quality

In today’s market, C-suites care more about hiring the best than hiring the most. The big question, then, is how to distinguish the good from the great talent, and how to use that approach to scale. According to Tilley, ServiceNow believes that talent risk is business risk and talent advantage is business advantage. So to reach the best, ServiceNow started assessing candidates as a whole while also communicating to leadership the value in a holistic approach. ServiceNow specifically assesses candidates’ “wholeness” across three major factors: skills, capabilities, and values.

On the talent supply shock

It’s great to have more talent knocking at your door, but it’s even better to make sure each touchpoint with a candidate is meaningful. Candidate touchpoints give companies an opportunity to tell their stories and turn prospects into advocates. This requires the right technology and tools to ensure a memorable candidate experience. Talent leaders and their teams need to recognize the need for intentionality and factor it into more of their daily tasks.

On leveraging AI to access skills

Companies have long sought ways to take a more skills-first approach to finding and developing talent. Now, talent leaders are looking to AI to help build a skills intelligence strategy around key domain personas. It’s clear that manual processes are time consuming and won’t cut it anymore. ServiceNow is currently deploying AI to assess skills taxonomy of every job and role and break them down in a way that AI can match candidates in- or outside an organization. The SaaS leader also uses AI to create faster, simpler, and more equitable paths to meaningful roles with the hopes of bringing more people into careers they may not have had access to.

On pay equity

The key to reaching pay equity is data. With the right metrics, companies can gain confidence that their equity efforts are working, whether it’s in hiring, retention, pay promotion, or succession planning. Many companies are using new tools like Compa’s real-time compensation data to keep up with industry and market changes. ServiceNow launched global hiring playbooks for each domain, which helps leaders step into more structured and equitable hiring practices designed to systemize pay equity. Tilley says ServiceNow eliminated blind spots by leveraging third parties to conduct regular analyses and assessments, thus maintaining overall equity.

On the evolving social contract between employees and employers

With candidates and employees expecting increasing levels of compensation transparency, it’s never been more important to build and maintain data metrics in a way that meaningfully reflects candidates’ concerns. Without this data, companies risk falling behind the compensation values and equity philosophies present in the market.

On skills gaps

To identify gaps, companies need to break down each role into a skills taxonomy, which is then fed to an AI tool to quantify what a company has, what it needs, and what’s out there in the market. After that, the information needs to be delivered to every recruiter and put into action. It’s crucial for talent development leaders to bring insights from the outside in and influence the way leadership thinks. Real-time data like what’s available with Compa is one way to make that happen.

On succession planning

Too many companies only pay lip service to succession planning, only later to realize the cost of not doing so effectively. Optimally, organizations will have an initiative that incorporates both internal and external succession planning.

On data insights that had the most impact

Where does your talent come from? What companies are you losing to? What industries are up (or down)? These insights all help paint a clearer picture of who succeeds in your organization. Specifically, data that reveals the whole ecosystem of talent for a specific role can improve a company’s diversity initiatives, among other compelling benefits.

About Sarah Tilley

Sarah Tilley is the SVP of Global Talent Acquisition and Development at ServiceNow. She is responsible for leading a newly integrated talent organization, which includes all external recruitment and internal mobility, learning and development (inclusive of leadership development), and talent and succession planning efforts. Prior to ServiceNow, Tilley spent 16 years at the Walt Disney Company.

Revisit these highlights and more in the full video recording and webinar transcript (below), and share with your colleagues who are also excited about the power of offers-based market data.


Charlie Franklin – 1:46

Alright, let's go ahead and get started. Hey everyone. Welcome. My name is Charlie Franklin. I am co founder and CEO of Compa. For those who don't know Compa is, an offer management platform for Compensation and Talent Acquisition teams in the era of pay transparency, and I founded the company after a decade in HR focused on comp. And at Compa, we've built the first source of market data that I wish I had. I'm joined today by my friend Sarah Tilly, who I'll introduce in just a moment. Today we are going to discuss how talent pools of all shapes and sizes are emerging after layoffs and hiring freezes and hybrid workplaces have impacted the labor market. And specifically, we're going to cover how companies need to adjust on how they attract and assess and hire top talent. We'll also talk about workplace equity as a new benchmark for talent acquisition teams to close the opportunity gap without closing the door, and how success requires new ways to turn market seasonality, like what we're experiencing now, into actionable insights with top that serve us our ability to win top candidates and just steer smarter comp decisions. So before we begin just a few notes, and we encourage you to submit questions throughout the webinar, and feel free to share your thoughts and insights directly in the Zoom chat. If we can't answer all your questions in our allotted time, we'll do our best to follow up directly with response. And the slides and recording of this webinar will be shared with all of you in 24 hours. Now I'd like to introduce Sarah. Sarah Tilly is SVP of global talent acquisition and development for ServiceNow. The digital workflow company making the world work better for everyone. She is responsible for leading a newly integrated talent organization, which includes all of external recruitment and internal mobility, learning and development, inclusive of leadership development, talent and succession planning efforts to lead ServiceNow forward on a skills based talent strategy. Prior to ServiceNow, Sarah spent 16 years at the Walt Disney Company. And throughout her career, she's earned a stellar reputation for creating new opportunities for top talent. As a working mom, she understands the importance of flexibility, and tailored career paths for all people. So with that, let's go ahead and get started. Sarah, welcome. I've been looking forward to this conversation. Since we got it on the calendar. I'm really glad to be here with you today. The market is volatile right now. And that directly affects both talent leaders and compensation leaders. Tell me what you're seeing in your industry and how it affects your approach to talent acquisition.

Sarah Tilley – 4:25

Thank you, Charlie. I'm really glad to be here. I've been looking forward to it as well. And thank you for inviting me. You know, I think we can agree we're certainly living and working in both exciting and challenging times right now from and from a talent perspective as well. So we are seeing definitely a temporary influx of available talent and pockets across the market. But the demand for the best is still there. And overall there's still a global shortage of experienced talent. That's definitely the case with Tech. And I was just actually reading an article this morning about AI and automation, as that continues to transform the workplace, we're gonna see that gap grow. And the the number I saw was the tech talent gap could cost companies worldwide $6.5 trillion by 2025. So, you know, I think, talent leaders, we need to adjust to these labor pools, especially given this blip that we're in. And that includes amending talent assessment practices, which we're doing to keep pace with market dynamics. So like, within that we're spending a lot of time on workplace equity, to ensure we're being very consistent and rigorous. And I'm not just talking about adherence to pay equity philosophies, but ensuring that all of our talent processes are equitable. It's an every single one of our people, Team initiatives. And I think, with what's happening in the market, specifically on how you think about talent assessment, you know, we were recognized, you have to ensure that hiring leaders have confidence, and how TA's assessing talent. Without that confidence, you know, we can't put into place, what needs to be put in into place to ensure we're getting to the best talent and doing it in a way that's equitable.

Charlie Franklin – 5:40

So thank you for sharing all that. And, that statistic on AI is really interesting. And it just speaks to me that, you know, when the market is volatile like this, it doesn't mean that the same thing is happening everywhere, except that everybody is realizing they have to do things differently. Talent Acquisition teams have an opportunity to take a lead when the market is volatile. I think folks, you know, might initially react with fear about kind of how they should adapt and what they should change. You mentioned that ServiceNow, and just where you're focused, you're thinking about amending talent assessment practices, how specifically, would you go about accomplishing this? And do you have any evidence of impact you can share on on whether that's making a difference?

Sarah Tilley – 7:19

Yeah, so you know, our CEO, and I think most CEOs, our CEO, isn't interested in how many hires we wmake or made. That used to be the really the only metric that mattered in TA how many hires how fast but our CEO is interested in ensuring we're hiring the best. So that's where much of our focus is right now. How do we distinguish the good talent from the great talent? And how do you do it at scale, and had the opportunity to be part of the IForce CP conference recently, and there was a conversation about what Board of Directors care about. And I don't know if you know, Kevin Martin, he leads research for IForce CP, he said, talent risk is business risk, talent advantage is business advantage, it just rolled off his tongue. And I was like, That's it, you know. And if you ask any senior leader, if they believe, if they believe that, do they believe, like talent, advantages business advantage, they're going to say yes, but then if you ask them to change the way they've been assessing talent, that's another story. So to get to the best, we had to figure out, we're still figuring out, how to do a better job of assessing the whole person and ensure our leaders see the value in doing that. And again, how do you do that for a global company that's still growing a lot. We're very fortunate from that standpoint. And so we're looking at it through a couple different lenses, you know, one is about ensuring we have the right things in place, to confidently say we're landing the most outstanding talent for those roles, where the need for a specific set of experiences. And you know, and the technical skills requirement is real. And then the other is broadening the pool of available talent by knowing how to spot that high potential talent, and not just focus on you know, a line for line match to a job description. So when we talk about assessing the whole person, what we're moving towards, is breaking it into, you know, kind of three big buckets, skills, capabilities and values, and on skills. I mean, that's where a lot of this conversation you and I are having to that we could have a whole conversation just about skills, but you know where we are today, I'll talk a little bit about where we are today, then where we're going. But we you know, today we started by creating, like domain personas that are truly focused on the specific abilities required to do that job. Well, you know, think cybersecurity engineer as a domain persona, for example. And then, you know, we're bringing in the tech assessment tools where it makes sense. And this is the year that we're also using AI to help us create a skills, intelligence strategy, and we're very fortunate to be able to use the ServiceNow platform for that. And you have to have recruiters and sourcers that really know their space. And I see some of my friends from Disney on. And, you know, I had a close friend and colleague at Disney that basically said, expertise creates confidence. Confidence creates creativity, because if you know your stuff, then you can think creatively about how to influence talent decisions. So that's, you know, skills and, you know, more on that, but on capabilities. The second big bucket, you know, we believe you don't have to have a title to be a leader. So we consider everyone a leader. And so we've defined the knowledge and behaviors that lead to success at ServiceNow. And then are designing the assessment process around that, you know, how is it constructed, consistent and effective. And then the last big bucket is around values. And you know, in the year that I've been here, I've really come to believe that's a competitive advantage for us, not just in the tech space either, but just as a company. And so as we grow, we're going to have to work really hard to maintain our values. And every hire we make either contributes to that, or takes away from that. So it really is a broad effort.

Charlie Franklin – 11:31

I love what you're thinking about with skills. And I agree, we could have a whole conversation on that we're focused a lot on that, too. I'm reflecting on just those priorities for your team in the market conditions we're in now, it it feels like we came from this world in 21-22, where talent acquisitions focus was this operation that is like as efficient as possible to hire as fast as possible to fill those wrecks. And I feel like a lot of organizations were exclusively sort of focused on automation and speed, increasing win rate things like that more traditional operational metrics, with a shift towards efficiency in the business, it's interesting to think about how that manifests a TA in the form of, let's find the best people like efficiency is more about when we do fill a wreck, this person needs to be an outstanding contribution to our talent pool across all those attributes you just described, including values. And I really liked the way you think about holistic assessment. So it's just fascinating to me that the evolution for TA in a world that where the market is more volatile efficiency is more about attracting the very best talent, knowing where to find them, bringing through an assessment process, where you have confidence that they're a great fit for your organization. It's, maybe what we should be doing all along. But in some sense, like, focus wise, it's a sea change, and I think it's welcome. No recruiter wants to be an order taker. Right.

Sarah Tilley – 13:12

Yeah. And then the hope is that the pendulum doesn't swing back all the way to the other side. Because I think it's an and to your point,

Charlie Franklin – 13:20

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And maybe things were just running a bit too hot. I know from the recruiting teams that we've worked with over the past couple years. In some sense, this market is is a breather, of course, there's some other concerns out there and TA folks need to make some changes. So never a dull moment. With all that being said, clearly, there's a flood of talent that's hitting the market. And you know, I spend a lot of time with comp people, I have an economic background, I'd like to talk about this as sort of a supply shock, where you have many more people chasing fewer job openings. The impact particularly in tech, is that organizations obviously like ServiceNow which is terrific organization have a lot more interest than they have roles to fill so I guess how are you thinking about approaching that with given your focus on talent assessment knowing that the the top of the pipe is full?

Sarah Tilley – 14:29

Yeah, becomes even more critically important. I mean, of course, there's clear benefit from having more talent knocking at your door then you have roles to fill, if you can protect the affinity they have for you as an employer. You know, that was a good problem. We had at Disney, Disney still has and and then again now at ServiceNow. And, you know, I really didn't have a clue how strong our employment brand was with technology. I've even come to learn how many of the employees at Fortune companies have a deep appreciation for what our platform and products bring. So that was a nice surprise. And all that has led to more interest in jobs, to your point, especially in the US at this moment. But, you know, we believe that every touchpoint provides an opportunity to tell your story, your company's story, and to turn prospects into advocates. That means you've got to do everything you can to provide a good experience. And you can't do that without the right technology. And so you've got to have the right tools in place to ensure a good candidate experience. So even if the answer is no or not, right now, they still have a, you know, an interest in your company and your brand. I don't know how you don't do that with more sophisticated tools and technology. And then I think you have to combine that with TA team members who understand the importance of it and make it a priority. I can tell you, when I was early in my career, that wasn't something I fully grasped, you know, the weight of that so and, you know, the role of of recruiters and sourcers. And coordinators for that matter, have just continued to evolve. You and I touched on that in past conversations, too. So I think it's, you gotta have the right technology tools, and then you gotta have the right mindset and how you're approaching it, too.

Charlie Franklin – 16:28

Yeah, it is a tall order. So the, narrative here is, okay, a lot more than we need to hire the best people. But there's a lot more people applying for these jobs. So you know, our percentage of folks who are applying that we can bring into organization is going down. That doesn't mean that we can sacrifice our brand and narrative about ServiceNow is a leading talent brand. And so how do we engage in meaningful ways at scale? For folks who were not ready yet to bring them in the organization. And I'll just say, as an aside, I just love that growth frame for any organization, but particularly fast growing organizations who have the confidence that know that you may not be talent today, but down the road, you will be and so taking care of you all the way through thinking about, you mentioned sort of holistic talent assessment, but I also say just holistically engaging with your employer brand out in the talent marketplace. That's a savvy strategy, especially markets are volatile, and you're going to have to be more selective with talent.

Sarah Tilley – 17:40

That's true.

Charlie Franklin – 17:40


Sarah Tilley – 17:41

Not easy.

Charlie Franklin – 17:42

No, I can't imagine and I see-- thanks, April, she has a question about using AI to access skills. Actually. Do you want to? I'm curious if you have a couple thoughts on that, Sarah, we can come back to it during the Q&A. But can you explain how you're working with that?

Sarah Tilley – 17:59

Yeah, I think, you know, we started to get into this skill thing. This is nothing new. You know, for decades, organizations have tried to figure out how to get to more of a skills first approach to not just finding talent, but also developing talent. And everyone's still trying to figure it out. It's the definitely the topic du jour right now. We're feeling pretty confident we're on the right path. You know, I talked about, for example, those domain personas that are truly focused on the specific abilities required to do the job well, that we created. Now we're in the process of building a skills intelligence strategy around those personas, and then ultimately, using AI to help us do the heavy lifting. And, you know, I've heard from, again, that the IForceCP, this was a big topic. But some of the companies that have been at this for a number of years, it seems like it's been a pretty manual effort, which makes sense up to this point. And this is another one where I think you can't build it, you can't sustain it without really leveraging tech or AI, really, and through data and algorithms over time. That's how you ensure Of course, like the equitable side of this, like how do all employees and candidates really have equal access to work and development opportunities? Now there's the risk of bias in AI so you got to stay deeply focused on how to minimize that. We aren't at the you know, tada phase yet, but we're getting close and we're going to learn and get better and we acquired a company Hitch last year, that really is about using AI to take everything you know,about like the skills taxonomy of every job or role, breaking it down in a way that you can then do use AI to find matches or to help people find someone in our organization calls it not career paths, but career corridors to which I love that term. And so I think that's a big opportunity. I was talking to my leader recently, you read the white papers on this topic, and you can quickly start to get panicked that oh, my gosh, you know, iwe're, you know, we're not moving fast enough. But then when you, see where organizations are, even the ones that have been on this journey for a while, we're still at ground level, and in a lot ways but I think we're gonna see an acceleration, especially with the tools entering the marketplace.

Charlie Franklin – 20:55

I 100% agree with that. Skills has been this thing that feels like it's a couple years away for like a decade.

Sarah Tilley – 21:03


Charlie Franklin – 21:04

But with this, technology shifts in AI that everyone is experiencing.

Sarah Tilley – 21:09

I had one other thought on that too, I'm sorry Charlie? Yeah, it was just, you know, this article that I referenced, that I was reading this morning to, you know, I'll talk about our space specifically, but I think it can apply t a lot of spaces. But you know, we've got a lot more high growth in front of us and our customer, and partner ecosystems are going to continue to expand. And, you know, we're not the only ones, but we're in a good position to prime the next generation for success in digital careers. And then also take our internal employees to the next levels that they want to go. And, you know, using AI through all of that, but we also launched a program last October, called Rise Up, which is, I'll try not to go too far down this path, because. I'm so passionate about this, but it's, about creating faster, simpler, more equitable paths to meaningful careers. And of course, we're focused on tech and digital careers, because it's as much of a social issue as it is a talent issue. And so it's not just about how do you use a skills intelligence approach and AI to support the existing workforce? But how are you bringing more people into a career that they may not have had access to, because companies are gonna have to figure this out? You know, again, if you've got another stat I saw this morning, 5.9 million new US tech jobs needed by 2027, to deploy a lot of the new AI and automation technologies. So if you're already facing a global shortage of talent, companies are going to be more motivated to figure this out than they have been in the past.

Sarah Tilley – 21:09

When we bring these AI tools into the market, you can't just apply it to the way you were doing things before. It comes with intention and process change, like you said, the responsibility, I guess to further your mission to look for talent in unexpected places. And, to layer the AI tools in where they belong, you still need human discretion, you still need your values to back your assessment process in addition to what you can automate. And I just think generally, skills are in the technology adoption lifecycle there, they're exiting the trough of disillusionment, and we're discovering very useful applications with AI and, with skills to start changing how recruiters are working. And it's just a really interesting time to focus on it. For leading organizations when the market is volatile, and you have a huge pipe and you need to hire the very best people.

Sarah Tilley – 24:17

That's true.

Charlie Franklin – 24:19

You talked about that program. I do want to get your thoughts on kind of the workplace and pay equity for a moment. There's a lot of focus here. And I'm just curious, what the level of challenge is on these kinds of initiatives at ServiceNow. And I guess, do you have any lessons that you can share on how you're addressing equity issues, not just with pay, but across the board?

Sarah Tilley – 24:50

Yeah, I think you know, candidates are and they have been for a while, you know, they're requiring an understanding about organizations commitments to workplace and pay equity. I think the key is data metrics. And using those in combination with accountability, so you know that's the direction we're going so that we feel confident that what we're doing to achieve systematic equity is working, whether that be in hiring, retention, pay promotion, succession planning, you know, that we're not going off our gut instinct on this, or, you know, the voices of few, but we're actually seeing it and the data and metrics, you know, on pay, I mean, TA leaders need to and are turning to new tools, including you needing real time compensation data that's collected and used in a compliant way, that your sweet spot, Charlie, to keep pace with the speed of change. And, you know, I talked a little bit about how we've designed and implemented structured and inclusive interviewing and assessment processes that are tech enabled. So for example, we built an interview and guidance scorecard app on our platform this year. And then earlier this year, we launched what we're calling our global hiring playbooks for each domain, which is helping our leaders get on that journey to operate within structured and equitable hiring practices, you know, on the pay equity front. We've worked hard, like a lot of organizations to achieve that systematic pay equity. And we've had that firmly in place for the last three years. We manage it on an ongoing basis, we're doing regular analysis and adjustments to maintain the pay equity overall. And I think for us, we believe, again, and how are you ensuring that it's not opinion, we're leveraging neutral third parties to to help us analyze what we're doing and making sure we don't have any blind spots. So, for example, last year, we intensify our efforts through an independent audit of our end in process, which gave us clarity on where we needed to make adjustments or work harder.

Charlie Franklin – 27:17

Yeah, that's terrific. And I often think about the long term trend of pay transparency, specifically, which fits into this broader topic, is accelerating at exactly the same time as the markets become volatile. And in some ways, these are sort of mixed, you know, tailwinds and headwinds for what changes things with recruiting. Because in the one sense, the market has become more volatile. And recruiters, you need to step up with their their skills assessment, and understanding their pipe using more automated tools. On the other, which kind of makes it more of a employer's market, as I think someone that comments mentioned, which I absolutely agree. On the other hand, one thing that you said that I'll pull out, in particular about pay equity is the word accountability is really important here, because it goes far beyond the regulatory change that's driving a lot of conversation on unpaid equity and pay transparency. But really, the shifting social contract where talent coming into organizations, expect data, expect very clear values and programs in place that are addressing these issues. And so, I mean, that can distill down to something as simple as like, hey, when you disclose the pay range on your job posting, that's an opportunity to market and I don't mean, to just sort of wash with with platitudes. But to talk about, here are our organization's values, here's how those translate directly into what you can expect to pay. And, of course, I'm really interested this topic like it gets into the issue of your recruiters prepared to have those conversations to represent your how your organization thinks about equity writ large, and also specifically pay which was just always something that comes up early now with candidates with all the conversation.

Sarah Tilley – 29:23

Totally agree and, you know, this legislation gets introduced, it's oftentimes created by people that don't understand the inner workings of a company but I'm not convinced that's a bad thing. Because the you know what the intent is, and ultimately, it all of it is helping on the broader scale for organizations to make progress against that intent. You know, we have to figure it out in different ways to your point on recruiters, I mean, some my former and current team members that are, you know, part of this conversation have heard me say like, nuanced does not scale. So you know, it becomes really hard. Yeah. People with with that, but I think if you feel very confident about the values of your organization, and that, on the whole things are operating with great integrity. It does. That's, that's the game changer, I think.

Charlie Franklin – 30:24

Yeah, it's an exciting I think with the right mindset in the right organization, it's a really exciting time to be in talent acquisition and thinking about these issues and the strategy is important. I know there are a lot of TA leaders on the call. I also know there are a lot of recruiters. And Bobby I saw you, shared a question which I love, just while we're on this kind of thinking about recruiters. Sarah, is there like one thing you recommend to a senior level recruiter on how they should start adapting to technology and cultural shifts? The ones that we're talking about?

Sarah Tilley – 31:04

That's a good question. Well, first, I do think that regardless of your level, my hope is that you work for leaders, and you're in an organization where your ideas can be heard, you know, and I think continuing to push organizations forward on their thinking, and it will take people deeper in the organization to influence that is critically important. But I think it kind of goes back to really knowing the space that you play in, and so that whatever you're building, in terms of your assessment process, nothing's foolproof, but pretty close to it, right? Because you can really ensure that when you go to a leader, and you're talking about talent, either an individual or talent in the marketplace, you are thinking about it 360, and you're able to articulate, here's what this person brings, that helps us now, here's what this person brings, that helps us in the future, and are advising at a higher level. I mean, you know, deeper in the organization, are you going to have the opportunity to to experiment with technology and tools and have those levers? Probably not, but exploring them certainly seems like an option. And again, like raising ideas, but I think it you know, ultimately, what I've seen happen to is where recruiters are making an impact on the business, they figured out how to make an impact on the business, eventually, that gets attention, you know, what's working? What do we need to do more? How can we accelerate what you're doing? How do we scale it, et cetera? So hopefully, that's

Charlie Franklin – 33:04

Yeah, I think is great advice. I'll take a stab to this question. Although I'm not a talent acquisition leader, I spend a lot of time with recruiters. And what you said that just really resonates with me is like, you need to know your stuff really, really, really detailed way. The more expertise you can bring whether I think you gave an example of like looking at security, engineering, and kind of that domain. Understand who these personas are understand deeply, not just what the hiring manager wants, but where the organization is trying to go. And becoming that connective tissue between representing your organization's strategy and values and connecting that to not just the best talent, skills wise in the market, but the best talent right now for your organization. That's just something that it can't be replaced by technology, that technology and cultural shifts are going to make those skills that you bring more important and their expertise more important. And so go deep, right? Like you don't need to fill 400 recs this half right, your individual recruiters like the world has shifted, you can go deep, and it's the right time to do it.

Sarah Tilley – 34:23

100% agree with everything that you've said.

Charlie Franklin – 34:28

So, okay, we've talked a lot about the topic of skills. And I'm glad we did, because I do agree with you. It's a very hot topic right now. And it's a way for us to think about addressing these larger talent pools. I do want to note that obviously there are still large skill gaps, even though there's more talent coming into the market and we and we talked about that some. I do want to ask you about kind of turn the conversation to data But I guess before we go there, just anything to add about, the skills gap. And I connect this back to, in some ways to recruiters just having that expertise in their specific domains, but anything you want to share on just how your team is thinking about specific skills gaps in your organization's and connecting that to the explosion of talent in your pipeline.

Sarah Tilley – 35:26

Yeah, we're spending a whole lot of time on that. Yeah, this sort of goes back to that conversation. You know, I keep referencing it, because I just attended this IForceCP. But that board conversation with two seasoned members of the board, it was really impactful, too, because it also highlighted that boards tend to think about, you know, the priorities relative to where things were. Some think about priorities relative to where things are. And very few think about priorities in terms of where we should be as a company or as an organization. And I think that the skills piece of it is pretty critical in terms of understanding, what are the gaps that you have today, that's almost not as hard as what are the gaps that we need to obtain moving forward in order to take us to the next direction. So it gets pretty technical, what we're doing, but literally, the effort to break down each role into a set of skills, that we then you know, inventory, and to a skills taxonomy, which then ultimately is going to get plugged into AI to help us understand and quantify what do we have? What do we need, and then pair that up with what we know about the marketplace, too. And, you know, I think the question on was it Bobby's question to that you were just asking you about, oh, around how that trickles down to an individual recruiter? I think, you know, that also lends itself to how do you use data to your point, like you're an expert, right? How do you use data to influence organizations and leaders. And I think the the skills gap is all about data. And I think for us, and recruiting, you know, and this is, again, what your organization does, one of the real values we bring, because I now have my other hat that I wear with talent development, too. But on the talent acquisition side, one of the real values that we bring to the organization is to take insights from outside of the company and bring them inside and help to influence the way leaders are thinking about this, you know, and, I was, when I joined ServiceNow, I was pretty blown away by what the ServiceNow TA team was delivering for the business. And we quickly saw our next big opportunity was to get a lot more data grounded in the way we're doing things like that was what was key to take it to the next level. And, and I'm gonna brag for one second. But we recently won the US LinkedIn Talent Award for being number one in the talent insights pioneer for the talent insights Pioneer Award, which basically means that out of every company that has 10,000 or more employees on LinkedIn, the LinkedIn data and insights team looked at an analyze the performance results and impact of organizations using LinkedIn talent solutions, and we were chosen as a winner, you know, which just shows, you know, the commitment to data and, and a shout out to Tiffany Hyman on my team and her team. But I think, you know, again, it's all about data, how that is going to be the key, we have to get it within a scale skills, intelligence strategy within our organizations. And then we have to measure the gap through a combination of internal data and external data, which has to inform everything that you're doing, you know, from from a cost perspective to you know, the the market is going to behave irrationally in places and traditional survey data isn't going to keep up with with some of that. There are times when that data is just going to lag. You know, we were fortunate to have a very strong partnership with our comp team and my friend and colleague, Lara Brady, who leads our total rewards team and I've talked about that, but it's like, you know, for example, real time data like what Compa offers that's tremendously valuable, like data, data data.

Charlie Franklin – 40:06

100% agree, of course. And since you mentioned a couple of times, Sarah, for folks who don't know, we haven't publicly launched this new product yet, but we have a way that primarily serving compensation teams, of course, this affects TA to have actually connecting offer data across your applicant trackstems to create a real time source of data that overcomes survey lag. And, you know, with the market being as volatile, as it's become you mentioned, Sarah, you having a strong partnership with Comp, this has become really, really important. Because Comp folks are under a lot of duress right now, there's a lot that has shocked. Basically, every part of how they do their job. I mean, pay transparency is kind of the most obvious things. There's so much regulatory change. But, you know, shifting to remote work, the great resignation, of course, that's a TA issue as well, inflation. And all these things have direct consequences to what Comp people rely on the set strategy. And I think the opportunity that you touched on is to actually bridge and bring the teams closer together, because talent acquisition, recruiters are the ones on the front lines every day actually interfacing with the market. So when it's changing faster, TA not only needs to rely on data, in a way becomes a source of data. So you clearly this is something that's grown in importance.

Sarah Tilley – 41:35

Yeah. I mean, You and I, you know, we've been in the game me longer than you, I suspect. But you know, the partnership between town acquisition and compensation has evolved in so many ways to, and I do think you're right, like, there's a greater understanding of how data should flow from both sides. But I also think it's pretty key that in my, partnerships with compensation partners and leaders, there has to be trust in the data, right. So you know, if we're saying these are the market insights, then, you know, there has to be, you have to have the methodology, you have to be able to articulate you have to if the trust isn't there, then it just becomes hyperbole, and that it just goes around, and then both sides remain frustrated. But it does seem as though a lot of organizations are making tremendous progress on how the two functions work together. Because that's how it has to be it.

Charlie Franklin – 42:47

I agree, Sarah, very well said and, and, you know, as a former comp leader, it's very challenging to be a good partner, when recruiters come to you asking for an exception with no data. And just hyperbole. Like he said, what changes the game is what you're talking about earlier of developing a specific skills, graph of here's the persona, here are the gaps, here's what we think we can find the market and where it is. Adding to that, here's how much it costs. And by the way, this is a little bit different than something we've done in the past. This is a level of collaboration and strategy, that it's exactly as you've said, throughout this conversation, this is the opportunity that talent teams have to step up and bring the best talent in, including for the best price. But it's obviously an effort that extends far beyond you know, that first contact, like the Sarah, you said the recruiters are the first communication for the candidate. But you know, following saying not just saying I love you, but showing it with making sure comp, right, making sure their experience is what they expect what you sold. I just love the opportunity for data to bind these siloed team historically siloed teams in a more collaborative way, especially in a market like this. Yeah. I see we're chatted for 45 minutes. I want to get to some questions here. So folks, I noticed Craig, thanks for asking question. We'll go to yours. First. We're gonna shift into some q&a. If you have questions that you haven't asked already, drop them into the chat or into the q&a, we can see both. Let me start with Craig's question, Sarah, the importance of external succession planning is clearly a new focus for TA functions. What are your thoughts?

Sarah Tilley – 44:43

Yeah, I think this is one of those things that organizations have, you know, there's been a lot of lip service about this being a priority but haven't actually taken the steps needed to read really ensure that there is a tight succession plan in place when critical talent is, you know, moved to new roles or exits the organization. And I think there's also as long as I've been in house in the town acquisition organ, you know, organization, there's also been like talk of-- how do we actually merge internal and external succession planning. And I think we're, you know our leader, for example, had the foresight to say, let's create one combined town or organization so that we can break down some of the silos, and that we can ensure that when we're having conversations about internal succession, that we are doing it in lockstep with an external succession plan. So I think, organizations, you know, are starting to get smarter about the cost of not doing that. Well. And so, you know, we do have a, you know, a focused, external succession planning strategy, we have dedicated resources, we're going to continue to to, and this is soething, it was like, you know, day three, it was very clear up to the board level, that we needed to get this right. And to many organizations see it as an afterthought, or, you know, a nice to do, but, you know, it is very costly. When organizations don't get this right.

Charlie Franklin – 46:10

Agree, we've got questions flying in, so I'm going to keep you in the hot seat. Bobby, Thanks for the reminder, James asked a question in the chat. earlier about ServiceNow, is recent LinkedIn recognition. Question for you, sir. What data insights did you find had the most impact?

Sarah Tilley – 46:54

So, you know, the, there is a lot that we are looking at in terms of, I'll kind of answer that two ways. Like there's the data that we're using that help us that helps us get smarter about where are we getting talent from? And where are we losing talent to, you know, kind of the talent flow data. And you know, everything around ultimately linking that in to see correlation between organizations, industries, organization size locations, like really trying to understand who's succeeding in our organization, who isn't and going all the way back to the source. And of course, that also means the channel source like from how they came into the organization. And we're in the process right now, for example, of, of finalizing a product that we're going to roll out, which helps us to crowdsource our employees, and for the people that they know, that are, stand out, not just like a referral program, but I won't, I won't go too far down that. So there's all the data that we're using, and Tiffany and her team could speak to this way more intelligently. But, but that's, you know, that is constantly, you know, understanding the broader landscape. And I can tell you, when I work with our senior leaders, and I think this could happen on an individual level, too, in fact, where we are operationalizing, this is, you know, understanding what is the talent landscape for the profile that you're seeking? You know, where do they exist across the country or across the globe? What is it going to cost? Who who are you? Who are you competing against in that moment? What are some trends relative to that specific, you know, function domain field? What is the diversity makeup of that? And what are the levers that you can pull to use that data shows you really, you know, okay, then we see there's only 1300 people that fit that very narrow profile that you have that defined. However, if we modify this requirement, see what we can leverage, you know, and oh, by the way, these trends inform us that there's an even smaller pool that maybe have more of these forward looking capabilities. And so what are we going to do? What are they care about? So understanding, you know, the data around what's going to be compelling. So it's sort of a there isn't really one piece of data, I actually find that it you're more effective by a holistic story on the specific area. And again, it goes back to having expertise, because there's the data on a page and then you bring it to life with your expertise.

Charlie Franklin – 49:55

Yeah, I love it. Okay, we got we'll go to another question here and this from an anonymous if comp team members are asking for data from recruiters, can we consider the comp team culture to evolve? Where can present their up to date benchmark data with recruiting teams? I want to take a stab at answering this too. But I'll let you go first, Sarah what's your take on? What's all this mean for your partners in comp?

Sarah Tilley – 50:20

I almost want to hear your answer first, though, Charlie. Love your perspective on this.

Charlie Franklin – 50:26

I mean, look. So you talked about how changing market, a more volatile market, new technology shifting culture means that not only do you need to sharpen your expertise, not only do you need to focus in on being on getting the best out in the organization, you need to change process too. That's what I think about with comp. And, like I said, are like not aligned with the comp, people got a lot on their plate. But listen, the era of updating guidelines once a year and broadcasting those to your partners and TA that era is behind us, it is gone. The market, not only changes faster, but like our conversation about the skills, gaps, and lumpiness with where in the world you're recruiting, you've just got to be adopting ways to get more adaptive to the market. That's what your recruiting partners need. That's how they're going to be more successful. So that's my take, I do think there's a call to action. I do think, by the way, the best comp teams are very much doing that and taking it on. But it's a lot, there's a lot on their plates. So that's kind of how I see it.

Sarah Tilley – 51:45

Yeah, I think that makes a ton of sense. You know, I think there's an opportunity for recruitment teams to get smarter on compensation philosophies and practices in general. And I think that is a joint effort to because, you know, I think that there can be an assumption around comp practices, and, fully understanding the complexities and why, you know, why things are the way they are, helps you better understand where you could or possibly need to influence based on what you're seeing in the marketplace. I think there's an opportunity on on both sides to, to lean in a little bit more. But historically, it's you know, either the assumption is that there isn't the ability or there isn't the interest in understanding the, you know, what's under the hood, from a compensation standpoint, for TA organizations. But, and it is, I mean, you know, the compensationb practitioners that I've worked with, are incredibly talented. And some of it gets really technical. So that that's the other thing that I've seen is how do you tell it in a way that can land? You know, how do you tell the story of the, you know, the practices, and that is so hard to do. I know, but I think that's critically important. And I see our comp teams do it really well here, but it's still an ongoing effort to ensure like, How does everyone fully understand why things are the way they are? As opposed to it feeling like it's an you know, kind of a mystery? Blackbox?

Charlie Franklin – 53:49

Yeah, I agree. And I'll add one more thing to that. And as it do, team go ahead and put up a, we want to just pull the group, if you're interested in learning more about this real time data, I think you'll find it really, really helpful for some of these conversations that recruiters have gotten into. For what you just said about so, you know, the question kind of put the comp team on blast I love how you turn it back to like, hey, there's change for recruiters here too. And it's true and well say is when an organization like ServiceNow is its strategy is to find the best talent, the best talent expect recruiters to be able to communicate. compensation strategy, right. And, if they come into a conversation from what they Googled, and they're savvier than you are, they know more or they think they do, then you're on your back foot, and you're no longer the strategic advisor you need to be for your hiring manager and the candidate. So a lot to ask right step up, do better,

Sarah Tilley – 54:54

It's true, you know, and it just highlights what you and I both said about our kind of respective areas. Focus like, is the job just continues to get more complex and less transactional. And I think that is more rewarding for people that lean into it. You know,

Charlie Franklin – 55:14

I agree. I completely agree. I know we have just a couple minutes left, we're only have time for one more question. And I love the one that that just came in here. So I'll turn this to you, and then folks will wrap up, I'll share a couple of resources that you might find helpful. Before we end our conversation today, someone asks, in such a precarious time for TA, how have you continued to inspire and feel your team's culture? And I just want to add for a minute, we're talking about really taking the lead. And as we said, with the the title of this webinar, and leveling up, not laying off. It's hard, right, the market is is scary right now, for a lot of teams. It does feel precarious, for TA, so how are you managing through that?

Sarah Tilley – 56:04

I'll do my best to answer that. I don't know what it's like to be a part of my organization with me as the leader. So I can only reflect but, you know, I think what I'd say about myself and my and my broader leadership team, is that, you know, one, we recognize that the most important thing is that our team members trust us, they trust that we have their their best, you know, that the support is there. And that we're going to do everything we can to ensure that we keep our team intact, that we keep our function intact, and that we get the support needed for what is needed as we continue to rev back up, which will inevitably happen, you know, so I think trust, and I think you build trust, through being transparent and being visible, and ensuring people feel as though they have a voice, and they have a place to go and lean on when they're feeling anxious. But I also think on the flip side of that, how do you inspire people we're working really hard to, ensure that, members of our team are bringing innovation in this moment, to your point, like we have a little bit of breathing room? What are all those things that we can do to elevate our function? And where are there other places in the organization that you might want to acquire new skills or knowledge or experience? So, you know, we're thinking a whole lot about how do people not just stay busy, but feel motivated by what they can contribute in this moment. So I think that's really it's, you know, continuing to, hold that, responsibility of trust very seriously. And then also continuing to not just allow, but encourage and celebrate ideas and progress on, you know, new ways of working, or new things that help set us up for success moving forward, like, you know, pipelines, etc. I'm going to say it, and then probably regret saying that, like, are there things we could be doing with chat GPT, right? like, everyone's talking about it in the recruitment function, but this is the moment to bring any and all ideas to the table while also exploring other things that you want to gain and learn. So we're doing our best.

Charlie Franklin – 58:54

Well, I think that's a great note to wrap our conversation. Before we officially wrap I'll share my screen just a couple resources to point you towards we do keep a free pay transparency map. On our website. You can check it out. It is geared towards recruiters. There's a lot that's changing, you may actually know there's a national paid transparency bill it's being proposed is not passed yet, and likely won't soon. But keep up with what's happening. So you have this great conversations with your candidates. I write a newsletter called peer group every week where I share data and we pull leaders in talent acquisition and compensation like yourselves, and then we have some upcoming webinars. Later this month, we'll be speaking with Cassandra Lammers, the SVP of total rewards at the New York Times about the topic of patrons apparently, and then next month with Tom Langley, a principal at Compendia consulting firm. I'm talking about this moving equity targets specifically in the world of comp. So with all of that, thank you, everyone for joining Sarah. I really enjoyed the conversation today. Um, thanks, folks. Have a good Thursday.